Jetcat does not return your turbine the way it was sent in
08-27-2016, 08:11 AM
#1
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Jetcat does not return your turbine the way it was sent in
Sent my turbine in to have a repair done. When I got it back my ECU had been reset. George dropped the RPM down 6000 RPMs from where it was and will not help me return it to where it was when I sent it in. Trying to talk to him is just like trying to talk to a wall. In the last year I have spent over $1,500 on this motor and now it is virtually unusable in the plane it was in.
So his excuse was, "well what is going to keep you from turning it to 140,000" All that was is an excuse to not help me. When John helped me put it back to where it was when I sent it to him, it was set, you could not just keep turning it up.
When I sent my motor in for the 25 hour to John Redman in Tehachapi the same thing happened. He was more than glad to help me set it back to where it was when I sent it in.
WE MISS YOU JOHN!!
No more Jetcats for me. If you cannot get a motor back, the same way you sent it in, and cannot get any help, I'll go somewhere I can.
sG
So his excuse was, "well what is going to keep you from turning it to 140,000" All that was is an excuse to not help me. When John helped me put it back to where it was when I sent it to him, it was set, you could not just keep turning it up.
When I sent my motor in for the 25 hour to John Redman in Tehachapi the same thing happened. He was more than glad to help me set it back to where it was when I sent it in.
WE MISS YOU JOHN!!
No more Jetcats for me. If you cannot get a motor back, the same way you sent it in, and cannot get any help, I'll go somewhere I can.
sG
08-27-2016, 07:14 PM
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It was just a smart-ass comment on his part to say there was nothing to keep me from just continuing to turn the motor up which is bs. It was as fictitious number.
08-28-2016, 06:49 AM
#6
I have had several conversations with George. I find him quite helpful and my JCs are finally running correctly.
In the past, I also had several conversations with John. I found John to be quite helpful, when you could talk to him. However, talking with him was difficult to accomplish and return email was non-existent.
Also, I could never keep my three P-90 RXIs running when John was working on them. But, ... ultimately I figured the engines were just not ready for prime time and it was not necessarily John's fault that he could not get them running correctly. I got rid of all 3 of the P-90s and reinstated my "never buy a first year production model" rule of thumb.
The best things about George are: He answers the phone, and follows up to ensure what he says he is going to do gets done in a very timely manner. He also actually returns calls in a timely manner, too. I always found him very polite and reasonable. And he had to clean up a couple of John's leftover "messes" for me.
Also, the comment initially made here does not make much sense. If JC's ECU currently has you locked out, how would you change the ECU setting without the access code. Sounds like what you are really looking for is just the access code. Being locked out is a fact of life with JC. It keeps us from doing something stupid and then looking for the warranty to pickup the tab for our mistakes. Increasing max RPM 6K seems a bit extreme. You might want to consider getting the right sized turbine, when you switch brands. Also, George has factory specs to deal with. If he set the turbine above spec, then he would be accepting a certain amount of liability.
There is all kinds of proprietary information out in the field today. Try asking the FBI about Apple's cell phone security technology. If you can't live with proprietary access, then guess it is your choice to go someplace else.
In the past, I also had several conversations with John. I found John to be quite helpful, when you could talk to him. However, talking with him was difficult to accomplish and return email was non-existent.
Also, I could never keep my three P-90 RXIs running when John was working on them. But, ... ultimately I figured the engines were just not ready for prime time and it was not necessarily John's fault that he could not get them running correctly. I got rid of all 3 of the P-90s and reinstated my "never buy a first year production model" rule of thumb.
The best things about George are: He answers the phone, and follows up to ensure what he says he is going to do gets done in a very timely manner. He also actually returns calls in a timely manner, too. I always found him very polite and reasonable. And he had to clean up a couple of John's leftover "messes" for me.
Also, the comment initially made here does not make much sense. If JC's ECU currently has you locked out, how would you change the ECU setting without the access code. Sounds like what you are really looking for is just the access code. Being locked out is a fact of life with JC. It keeps us from doing something stupid and then looking for the warranty to pickup the tab for our mistakes. Increasing max RPM 6K seems a bit extreme. You might want to consider getting the right sized turbine, when you switch brands. Also, George has factory specs to deal with. If he set the turbine above spec, then he would be accepting a certain amount of liability.
There is all kinds of proprietary information out in the field today. Try asking the FBI about Apple's cell phone security technology. If you can't live with proprietary access, then guess it is your choice to go someplace else.
08-28-2016, 07:19 AM
#7
I had an old 6.0 ECU die recently, I got a phone call the minute they got it in and fixed the same day... I didn't mention a rush or anything and got it back with an order a few days later. Dreamworks has always had great service, I have a feeling we will experience the same with their Jetcat repairs.
08-29-2016, 07:38 AM
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The new JetCat USA team is dedicated to providing an unparalleled level of Sales, Support and Service. Every engine is serviced with Performance, Reliability, and Safety being priority one. Every engine has limitations; With micro turbines, RPM is the limiting factor and exceeding the manufacturing RPM limitations of turbine/compressor wheels can have destructive, devastating and dangerous consequences!
Turbine manufacturers usually set engine limits within a few thousand RPM of these component limits as a buffer for engine over-speed. In the interest of safety, All engines serviced by JetCat USA will be set to the maximum manufacturer RPM specification for each engine model, period. Having witnessed more than once, Catastrophic compressor failure; engine over-speed failure is not a risk we are willing to take with any engine!
6000 RPM is well beyond the safety margin of the rotating assembly and if you require this much additional thrust from your motor, It is time to step up in engine class, not RPM! Would you operate your car engine on a regular basis 6000 rpm above red-line?! How long do you think that will last before ending badly? Shrapnel in my test cell walls paint a very clear picture of the dangers involved, and the liability we are not willing to accept.
Todd Witkoff
JetCat USA
Turbine manufacturers usually set engine limits within a few thousand RPM of these component limits as a buffer for engine over-speed. In the interest of safety, All engines serviced by JetCat USA will be set to the maximum manufacturer RPM specification for each engine model, period. Having witnessed more than once, Catastrophic compressor failure; engine over-speed failure is not a risk we are willing to take with any engine!
6000 RPM is well beyond the safety margin of the rotating assembly and if you require this much additional thrust from your motor, It is time to step up in engine class, not RPM! Would you operate your car engine on a regular basis 6000 rpm above red-line?! How long do you think that will last before ending badly? Shrapnel in my test cell walls paint a very clear picture of the dangers involved, and the liability we are not willing to accept.
Todd Witkoff
JetCat USA
08-29-2016, 10:13 AM
#9
I had the exact problem as the OP with a P-80. Purchased s/n 2289 in 2008 direct from JetCat and the engine came set to 123K. After a year, I sent it in for servicing due to seizing on start. Got it back set to 117K. When I called about that, I was told P-80's were supposed to be 117K and the fact that it was originally delivered at 123K didn't seem to matter.
What I think happened is that when the ECU firmware was updated to 6.0V, it got the standard P-80 load that defaulted to 117K. I don't know how JetCat does their configuration control, but P-80's have been variously updated over the years for higher thrust to run at 120K & 123K and higher for the SE.
What method does JetCat use to differentiate which hardware these engines contain to get them set correctly?? I don't know and I see no way to tell either.
A year and a half ago, I had a regular P-80, s/n 2099, a 120K engine I believe, rebuilt and it came back as a P-80SE set to 125K. In this case, I think they replaced the circuit board under the hood with one that had it's ID set as an SE engine so the ECU auto-configured for that. I'm sure the engine doesn't have the right parts in it to be an SE as it seems to starve for air when accelerating.
The OP didn't say what engine, but it's certainly possible, in my opinion, that he may not be out of line.
What I think happened is that when the ECU firmware was updated to 6.0V, it got the standard P-80 load that defaulted to 117K. I don't know how JetCat does their configuration control, but P-80's have been variously updated over the years for higher thrust to run at 120K & 123K and higher for the SE.
What method does JetCat use to differentiate which hardware these engines contain to get them set correctly?? I don't know and I see no way to tell either.
A year and a half ago, I had a regular P-80, s/n 2099, a 120K engine I believe, rebuilt and it came back as a P-80SE set to 125K. In this case, I think they replaced the circuit board under the hood with one that had it's ID set as an SE engine so the ECU auto-configured for that. I'm sure the engine doesn't have the right parts in it to be an SE as it seems to starve for air when accelerating.
The OP didn't say what engine, but it's certainly possible, in my opinion, that he may not be out of line.
08-30-2016, 10:30 PM
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When I made my phone call to very politely ask if my motor could be returned to the 123 that it had been running at for years, the door was pretty much slammed in my face. There is no reason to get into the details, but I believe things should have been handled a little differently to put it mildly.
All that had to be said was, I'll be glad to look into it for you. Period. And at that point the outcome would be exactly what Jetcat concurred. My P80 can run at 123,000.
So when I get home from work next week, a phone call to Jetcat will put my P 80 back to normal. (and believe you me, 6000 rpms, makes a world of difference)
.... and George, I learned my lesson, I'll NEVER call you on Saturday again!!
sG
All that had to be said was, I'll be glad to look into it for you. Period. And at that point the outcome would be exactly what Jetcat concurred. My P80 can run at 123,000.
So when I get home from work next week, a phone call to Jetcat will put my P 80 back to normal. (and believe you me, 6000 rpms, makes a world of difference)
.... and George, I learned my lesson, I'll NEVER call you on Saturday again!!
sG
