F4 Phantom blue angles

Im old school, What are differances between---NIMH batts,and the new Lithium Ferrite Phosphate batterius? Thankyou

Rodney

Differences are chemistry, size and weight per MAH, method of charging, durability plus many more .

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

There is a lot to know. Here is a good place to start: http://www.hangtimes.com/redsbatteryclinic.html

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

NiMh Pro's:
a) Can be charged with a simple wall-wart charger
b) Can be checked with a loaded ESV before and between every flight
c) Does not develop memory issues as bad as NiCd
d) Lighter and more energy in same size compared to NiCd
e) Cannot be easily overcharged. A few days on a 50mA wall-wart will not hurt them

NiMh Con's:
a) Poor current capability. Bad choice for larger aircraft with high-draw servos. Fine for 20 to 60 size planes
b) High internal discharge. NiMh will lose charge rapidly. Must charge the night before flying.

LiFe Pro's:
a) Much higher energy density
b) Can support high-draw servos without the voltage sagging.
c) Will not lose charge while in storage
d) Can be charged relatively quickly (less than two hours at 2C charge rate) Edit..OOPS! 1/2hr at 2C

LiFe Con's:
a) Requires special LiFe compatible charger
b) Cannot reliably check remaining battery capacity between flights.

I am slowly switching my fleet over to LiFe, but I continue to use NiMh in my smaller planes without worry. The key is to check the voltage before each flight with a loaded volt-meter. I use this one https://www.amazon.com/Expert-Electr.../dp/B0006O5LVS

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

This is important! A fully discharged LiFe has almost the same voltage as a fully charged one. The safe solution is to use have far more capacity than you will use in a day of flying. You should have twice as much battery capacity as you will need for a day's flying. LiFe's are light weight and it's easy to carry excess capacity.

How do you know how much capacity you will use in a day? Fully charge the battery and then fly 3 ten minute flights and recharge. This tells you how many miliamp's (Ma) you are using for each flight. For example, if you recharge and see that you used 900 Ma then you know each flight takes 300 Ma. If you normally fly 6 flights a day, you will need 1800 Ma. Double this for the amount of battery capacity on board....3600 Ma total. Use two 1800 Mah LiFe batteries and two switches going into two different Rx ports. This will provide nearly 100% reliability for power.

HunkaJunk

I feel the newer battery technologies have an advantage over NiMh due to the discharge curve. Back in the day I used a single quality NiMh pack in a 50cc aerobatic airplane. I could do 3 flights and then I would fast charge the pack, the problem was never a lack of current, it would deliver enough current to melt the insulation off of 22ga. wiring. but once the voltage started dropping more under load, it was time to charge.

Now the same old plane has a single LiFe pack in it, it is lighter, voltage remains at peak longer under load, and the pack can be discharged to a greater extent and have the same performance.

The disadvantage to the lithium based battery tech is they require more complex, and more expensive computerized chargers.

kmeyers

This is very close to how I feel about the differences.

I started throwing away MH after my experiences. False peak claimed lots of friends planes. One day I was working with a student and his plane that I was controlling lost contact due to false peak of a large capacity MH battery pack. That did it for me! It passed a quick check, but, it was not charged. I bought a little electric coptor that was powered by an 800mah AAA mh pack that following the directions yielded about 100 cycles. I tell people that I believe MH to be a government conspiracy (because of their inertness).

Life on the other hand, were created for the portable high power use (rechargable tools).
Lipo's have the problem of venting with flame, Life's do not have any such problems. This comes at a weight penalty of about half the capacity of Lipo's.

2c recharges a pack from empty to full in thirty minutes!

I say if you don't use a modern charger ( I have been using a "Turnigy" cheapo for years) you should not be flying large models.

F4 Phantom blue angles

Thanks so much for the info!

F4 Phantom blue angles

Thanks for the info my friends on the battery issue. I always used NIMH batts,but i am going to switch over to LiPro's.

F4 Phantom blue angles

Hey warick,Thanks for the info,it was very helpfull

wagspe208

My Feedback: (1)

Are Lipo and Life similar, the same, or totally different.

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

Similar, but different enough to warrant their own pro's/Cons. With LiFe, they can drop into any older radio system replacing Nimh/NiCd. With LiPo, servos and Rx's must be able to handle the higher voltage, or run a voltage regulator which kinda defeats the purpose and adds an extra failure point. Newer electronics can be purchased that will handle unregulated lipo's if you are starting fresh. (expensive).
Today, LiFe batteries are an inexpensive upgrade your old existing planes to a more reliable power source.

In the future, as electronics designed to accept unregulated LiPo's becomes standard, LiFe will probably fade away.

kmeyers

LiFe's are very different then LiPo's.

When you charge lead acid batteries a little hydrogen gas is released. This is why there is a recommendation to charge in a well ventilated area.

When Lipo's first hit the market they were labeled " Do not over charge this battery will vent with flame". This is because pure lithium needs no ignition source to ignite (in the atmosphere) and is what is vented upon over charging.

Life's have been made to "not vent with flame" ( I'm sure this has some legal advantages). This comes with a great capacity loss for weight and size (about half). Life's are not going to fade away. They have many advantages in certain applications.

The weight and size to capacity of Lipo's mean they will also be with us for a long while.

Lead acid batteries are going to stay also for many years.

I think what fades away is very hard to determine at present.

This is not all there is on all the different chemistries.

You will also find if you look that some have found that some equipment designed for the 4.8v (4 NiCd's) world was not happy with LiFe's steady 6.6 volts (2 LiFe's). In this case we use a silicon diode in line to drop the voltage 0.7 volts. This was only with some really old stuff (you know like 15 years or so).

wagspe208

My Feedback: (1)

So, either lipo + reg. === lighter, but regulator
life== no reg, heavier, "safer"
but the lipo "fire issue" is not an issue for me.

kmeyers

Nope, it is never that simple. I still have many reliable LiIon airborne packs, depending on other airborne components they may or may not have regulators (LiIon's 2s = 7.4v).

I have flyer friends who very carefully operate NiMh all the time, I trust them.

So the choices are many and dependent on all factors.

The most important thing is to make sure you have the electrons stored and ready for a safe flight.

F4 Phantom blue angles

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the 3rd.wire ,Yes,there is a reason for having this wire,Im good at alot of things,but I should of did some back ground research on this before I posted.

F4 Phantom blue angles

I think Ill stick to my NIMH Batts. I never had a problem with them. As long as you run a charge and discharge cycle with them maybe every week(depending how much you use them),you should be fine. I also have an ACE-DMVC. It is discontinued,but you can charge,or maintain both Tx.and Rx.packs on the field.and it is adjustable for both batts. It runs off a car batt,field box,or AC.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

In other similar discussions it seems to boil down to this every time: people who are comfortable with NiMH packs, understand them and have good luck with them, don't really have a compelling reason to change and IMHO there is no underlying reason to convince them otherwise other than personal preference and needs.

I'm one of the group who feels very comfortable with Li-ion or LiFe Rx batteries and I have had nothing but good and predictable experiences. I am thriving on the ability to out in 2-3x the necessary battery capacity at a fraction of the weight of the older status quo. I buy BEC's and regulators for a few bucks, that work perfectly. I use 700mAh, 1400 and 1800 mAh LiFe Rx packs that cost a few bucks and weigh half of the equivalent NiCD pack, and I laugh at how much capacity is left at the end of the day. That's a a biggie for peace of mind and troublefree enjoyment in my books. And you can of course top them up so easily in the field too. My small models have never been lighter, and I have never felt such impunity about battery capacity on nearly all my models. I just installed a 21 gram 500mAh capacity battery (650mAh 1S plus step up) in a .10 size model, total cost $10, $5 for the step up regulator and $5 for the battery, maybe $0.25 for the tape holding them together and the Velcro. About 1/3 the size of a pack of Trident gum. Those are the kind of specs I like - but I am biased towards smaller models where I always fret about battery weight.

kmeyers

+1 My experiences are almost the same as yours. I found people using step-up circuits years ago in small single cell equipment. I bought some for use in places where every gram counted and never had a problem.

I guess I should have made it clear that IMHO you sometimes need to go flying at a moments notice with no time for 12 hours of battery prep. This is where the new LiFe's shine the most and the low self discharge of the LiIon's make them very good as well.

People will do as they wish, but, the new tech is better than the old. So I slowly change my fleet over to the new tech when a purchase must be made.

I use what is working until there is a reason (everything wears out) to upgrade and of course the new tech makes the most sense here.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

The almost nil to very low self discharge rates are indeed a thing of beauty.

On the flip side, I won't hesitate to stuff an oversized NiCd or NiMH in the front of a larger tail heavy airplane if I have one on hand.