Agrav8ed

I normally like my jets more neutral. Can you tell me where the Rebel in the pics is balanced?
You seem to have a ton of experience with these. What are your thoughts on rebalancing at mid wing tube with uat full and main tank empty? This should still keep me a bit nose heavy but not drastically so, correct? My carf viper was ridiculously nose heavy and I would like to avoid some of that with the rebel if I can. Thoughts?
I do plan to always land with a bit of fuel in the tank but worse case scenario if I run out of fuel I do not want to suddenly be "tail heavy".
thanks,
Tone

Dave Wilshere

Tone

The Rebel is nothing like the Viper even with the factory position. I did intend checking the balance today but forgot with all that was going on. Will ask the owner Steve to check it.
Mid wing tube tank empty is still nose heavy when there is any fuel in the tank, rear of tube with some fuel in main tank is still safe.

Dave

Agrav8ed

Thank you Dave, I would be curious to see where he balances out.
Tone

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

I maidened my Rebel Pro with CG 1" behind the former that is behind the wing tube, with 1/5 tank of fuel onboard. It definitely felt tailheavy, but was very flyable and stall still very, very predictable. there are many places online that you will find info about CG location on this and other rebels, but you are right, a simple, or even complicated google search will yield very few results. I guess I just got lucky, in that I stumbled upon that info while browsing Rebel HOT threads, and I had a Rebel HOT before the classic. The HOT came with a manual, and that manual title read "Rebel HOT and Rebel Classic instruction manual".
I'm surprised the classic doesn't come with that same manual. Mine also didn't.
As Dave said, CG in the middle of the tube with an empty tank is still quite nose heavy for this bird.
After maiden on my Pro, I went from dual 2600mah li-ions on the nosegear mount plate, to dual 5200mah li-ions as far up in the nose as I could get them. My CG is now 1/4" behind the tube with 1/4 tank(1.2L) of fuel, and CG feels near perfect.

Agrav8ed

I did find that manual on this forum but it stated that the CG is in front of the wing tube, not aft. Based off of your and Dave's recommendations I will try re-balancing at the rear of the wing tube with an empty tank. That way if I ever run empty during a flight I will not be tail heavy. With a about an 1 1/4 of fuel in the main tank (about the amount I usually land with) I should be just a little nose heavy and I will take it from there.
Tone

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

That might have been the pirotti version of the manual. And then a guy later in the thread, that I believe was involved with Pirotti, said it's the back of the tube, not front. I'd have to look again, but the carf version of the manual I am pretty sure says back of tube. Carf used to have it as a downloadable manual. Don't know what happened to the link now.
***EDIT*** You are right, the carf manual says FRONT EDGE OF WING TUBE, in bold letters. But they did a quicky manual with all the basics for getting the Rebel Pro up and running, and in that manual, it clearly states "The CG of all Rebels is the rear edge of the wing tube". I now understand your frustration...

Agrav8ed

Just spoke to Mike from Carf. He informed me that anything from the front to the rear of the wing tube is considered the sweet spot. Looks like I am rebalancing lol.
Tone

Agrav8ed

I rebalanced the Rebel today at the wing tube with UAT full and main tank empty. I was able to remove the nose weight and use much smaller batteries. I was using two 5000mah 2s receiver packs and one 3s 4100mah ecu batter. I was able to reduce those to two 2s 2550mah receiver packs and a 3s 2200mah receiver pack to get it to balance properly. Hope to maiden it next week at "Jet Together" in Fredericksburg. Was able to shave 0.89lbs
Tone

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

Nice! Isn't it crazy how this jet is pretty much the same size as a T1, yet 6lbs lighter?

Agrav8ed

It really is a substantial weight savings through engineering. Do wish they had used a bit more carbon fiber. My T1 is built like a tank and can take a beating. I will fly the Rebel for fun and the T1 when I just want to yank and bank and try stuff.
Tone

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

Agree on wanting more carbon fiber. Mine is going to be ridiculously over powered. If I didn't know how to manage throttle I could imagine the fuse folding up on itself if flown too fast.

Dave Wilshere

It’s plenty string enough as is to be flown as designed. Why you would buy a constant speed aerobatic jet and want to go fast beats me!
Turn and burn is what the Ultra Flash was produced for

Agrav8ed

Not sure I understand, whether it is a aerobatic sport jet or a speed machine, wouldn't both benefit from additional carbon reinforcement?
Thanks,
Tone

Dave Wilshere

Tone

Not if they are designed correctly. Have you ever looked inside an Ultra Flash kit? Not much carbon. Poor manufacturers over build our models, heavy models put more load on the airframe. If you read CARF’s blurb they don’t mention speed...

Agrav8ed

I actually did not see much at all on the carf website about flight characteristics for the Rebel classic. But it built light and strong so it should fly well. Hope to maiden it this weekend.
Tone

Dave Wilshere

OK, been flying with Steve and his Red Rebel 2m today. This was his first jet model, actually first time he had a go was first turbine flight ever. When I left the field he had completed flight 14 with not a tip touch or single bounce. The guys in my club are super excited about the Rebel.
i took verniers with me, Steve has a Powerbox Mercury and the gyro is set at 30% ailerons, 32% elevator and 35% rudder. His movements in that mode are 19mm each way Aileron, 28mm each way elevator and rudder is max movement possible, with landing fuel, his model with the hatch off (you can pick it up under the lip each side) is just on the back edge of the tube. So in front of the former by a couple of mm.
You can just see his 6 1/2 minute flight level in the tank with a P-130Rx ( lots of power)

Dave Wilshere

Steve’s 12th landing on a Jet ever. Little wind 129m grass strip

Dave Wilshere

And take off same flight

jamessymons

Wow. Can't believe how slowly it lands and how quick it gets into the air. Well done guys !

Dave Wilshere

It will land slower than that! He’s a novice 😁

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

A. He's a good pilot.
B. Its a great jet!
Jim

Dave Wilshere

This is the test flight take off. That’s not full power on the P-130Rx either, but more wind than Steve’s take off

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

I have an ultra Flash just for that. I don't intend my Rebel to be a turn n burn bird. I power my rebels for accelerated vertical. I also fly at a high density altitude so I tend to over power everything. It's just that this one will be ridiculously over powered. Looking at the fuse, I'd be worried about the fuse collapsing on itself if I ever 'accidentally' made a full throttle pass.
I probably should have put this 170 in the Ultra Flash and used the 140 for this, but it is what it is.

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

Mine is getting there. Had to darn near shoehorn that 170 in there, lol. Trying to keep equipment install simple and clean like my Pro. Hope to maiden this weekend.

Agrav8ed

Got my maiden in today. Man what Great jet. And it slows down like a baby. You were right Dave. My maiden flight I flew for five minutes and had about 5/8th of a tank left.
Tone